Curse

Antisocial · Dec 13, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Cuz me likeh teh pwetty wulf.....rank6+

If you are being honest, you will take a rank6+ way sooner than a rank0
You will take a FoW armor warrior sooner than a 1.5 k armor warrior..
Because they keep farming or buying items on ebay?

You're talking about rank6+ doesnt say anything etc, but you have got to admit the rate of good players is much higher at rank6+ than rank0?
80%>40%?

Navaros · Dec 13, 2005, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roza

People who judge other players by rank are either elitist (they feel rank is important because THEY are rank+ something), silly or lazy.

It is easy to determine whether a player is good by another good player. Ask for skill-bar, ask about a skill, ask about something else. The reaction you get will let you determine the level of the player with much greater accuracy than any rank shown. Rank 3+ will only tell you that a player has played tombs frequently for a while (not whether they are any good, they may have IWAY-ed for months or got to rank 3 in one weekend, no way to tell). Rank6+ players will generally be competent as they will most likely have been in good groups fairly often, though they may also be just obsesive PuG or IWAY players with a lot of playing time behind them). And a rank 1 might be just as good as a rank 9.

Nowadays, so many people get to rank 3+ due to the IWAY thing. Imho, if a player got to rank 6 by IWAYing, they are probably less suitable for anything besides IWAY then a rank3+ not having done that (it shows that they are happy playing the same simple tactic over and over, rather than experimenting with the many options in this game, which is generally not a sign of great intelligence).

The importance that rank has in the eyes of many players is probably the the worst thing about tombs and about the game in general. It makes PvP hard to get into for many players. I would guess that for every 1 good rank6+ player, there are 3 potentially equally good players that give tombs a try but get put off by the fact that without rank, they can only find very newbie pugs or IWAY pugs. For these players, the only answer is finding a good guild, patient fame farming (not attractive) or getting lucky and finding a good group and becoming friends with them (which is not likely with most good groups having this l33t rank+6 only attitude).

So, in short: rank+ something requirements are the scourge of pvp.

Obviously rank is a somewhat accurate and important measure of skill, otherwise new players would be able to make good groups with unranked players. You guys complain that they can't get good groups with unranked players, yet try to brush under the carpet that the reason for that is because unranked players suck.

And there is no freakin' way that a rank 1 player would be anywhere near as good as rank 9, even if the rank 9 IWAYed himself all the way up.

This is what I always find so ludicrous about the anti-rank afficianados. They claim rank means nothing, yet they also claim you need rank to get into a good group. Well guess what - you can't have it both ways! If rank means nothing, then unranked groups would be saturated all over the place and getting into them and winning with them would be no problem at all.

I say, it's high-time for anti-rank afficianados to stop the hypocrisy.

Xenrath · Dec 13, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Everyone starts off at zero. The problem is when the ones who make some headway and get higher ranks refuse to let the others (who maybe started later than they did) a chance to get involved/progress because "they suck!". Navaros' post illustrates this thinking perfectly...

Navaros · Dec 13, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Everyone starts off at zero. The problem is when the ones who make some headway and get higher ranks refuse to let the others (who maybe started later than they did) a chance to get involved/progress because "they suck!". Navaros' post illustrates this thinking perfectly...

I don't mean to sound like a jerk; I'm just being honest. If you were an employer who was hiring, would you wanna take the less-qualified applicant, or the more-qualified applicant?

Why should good players handicap their own parties for the sake of "giving others a chance". Giving others a chance is very time-consuming. They should be learning on their own time with players of their own caliber (ie: other unranked players) rather than leeching off the skills of better players, wasting the time of better players, and dragging the better players' teams down to their level.

Deadlyjunk · Dec 13, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

I don't mean to sound like a jerk; I'm just being honest. If you were an employer who was hiring, would you wanna take the less-qualified applicant, or the more-qualified applicant?

Why should good players handicap their own parties for the sake of "giving others a chance". Giving others a chance is very time-consuming. They should be learning on their own time with players of their own caliber (ie: other unranked players) rather than leeching off the skills of better players, wasting the time of better players, and dragging the better players' teams down to their level.

Unfortunately there aren't that many unranked players. Almost everyone is at least rank 3 from IGAY runs... really nice for people like me that only have 78 fame but that won all of it with builds that require skill.

Willy Rockwell · Dec 13, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.

Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck.

Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking.

Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6.

And how did those "special" players get to rank 6? Did they skip the previous ranks so as not to appear noobish? Did they suck at 5 but suddenly get elite at 6?
I would be embarrassed to belong to a guild containing such arrogant jerks as this.

Shmash Witdaclub · Dec 13, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

I find it rather hard to believe that people would kick someone from the guild because of their rank - there must have been other reasons, because guildies could care less about what rank someone is, they care how GOOD you are as a player, how do you fit in the guild as a personality, how active you are, etc.

nope, there was no otehr reason. there was 3 other people booted for the same reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

I'm guessing since you were away from GW they probably decided you was not active enough (did you tell them why you was away?). Or maybe you were not in fact as good buddies as you thought you were ...

Again, nope. I posted on our guilds web site, told them all in advance, they wished me the best of luck at recovery, etc. And if we weren't good buds (yes they could be faking it here) then they wouldnt have asked how my recovery went when I returned or have been concerned when I let them know that this may have ruined the game for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

I really don't think your case falls into the general ranting about the (un)importance of rank, you should just talk it out with your old guildies - if you want to get back in. If not, just move on - if you are a good player, there are plenty of decent guilds out there ...

No, it really does fall into the rant. Not to be mean, don't presume to know because you dont. My previous guild now has a new guild app. where it strictly says "must be rank 7+". And not only that, but a few of them have actually flamed people posting on their web site for their app becuase the applicant was not rank 7+, which of course making me think less of them.

As for posting the guild name and rank like someone asked before I will not do that because I myself do not want to be judged with having bad character. This guild was recently in the top 100, and has been talked about on guru boards before (i know many of them have). But I am not going to mention the guild name or any of the guildies because I do not want to trash any of the people I used to be friends with in retaliation (sp) for what they did to me.

Shmash

burai · Dec 13, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmash Witdaclub

As for posting the guild name and rank like someone asked before I will not do that because I myself do not want to be judged with having bad character. This guild was recently in the top 100, and has been talked about on guru boards before (i know many of them have). But I am not going to mention the guild name or any of the guildies because I do not want to trash any of the people I used to be friends with in retaliation (sp) for what they did to me.

Good for you mate. There's not many people who would be so restrained.

crimsonfilms · Dec 13, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Knowing that person and his abilities will tell you a lot more about him than his rank ever could.

That is really not a methadology but a philosophy. That is not the same thing as Rank.
As rank gives you a predefined system with absolute numerical values.
Your suggestion however is vague can be interpreted in any way by any player.

RANK DOES MEAN SOMETHING. It is not the end all and be all solution but it does mean something.

Finally, if he was already in the guild don't you think they would already be familiar with his game play? Obviously it was not good enough to overcast rank. Right? (I am not trying to put you down Smash, just being logical here).

Quote:

Did they suck at 5 but suddenly get elite at 6?

Uhm because you can prove rank 6 and not rank 5.

Quote:

The problem is when the ones who make some headway and get higher ranks refuse to let the others (who maybe started later than they did) a chance to get involved/progress because "they suck!".

People with "l337" rank has just been classified as people with no life and spending unusualy amount playing tombs using "IGAY"
So why would a l33t player invite a casual not ranked player to his team again? To be nice?

And BTW - stop calling it "IGAY" or any putdowns.
Until one of you can come up with a better build (I will argue that if you like) don't do it. The truth is there are very few builds, if any, that is as easy to run and actually wins in Tombs, let alone win the Hall.

Navaros · Dec 13, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willy Rockwell

And how did those "special" players get to rank 6? Did they skip the previous ranks so as not to appear noobish? Did they suck at 5 but suddenly get elite at 6?

I'll give you an example. Chances are, a r3+ IWAY pug is not going to have two sword warriors with hundred blades who place their spirits at the starting point on Broken Tower.

One day I joined an unranked IWAY PUG just for the heck of it, and that's exactly what happened.

Special players got to rank 3 and 6 by clawing their way up the ladder with other unranked players, during which time they learned better than to do stuff like what I just mentioned.

trevok · Dec 13, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.

Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck.

Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking.

Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6.

Speaking of logic, you're commiting the logical fallacy of reification here. You can't take an abstract concept such as being skilled at PvP in Guild Wars and reduce this to a materially existing number which can thus be used to compare various players to each other.

crimsonfilms · Dec 13, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

You can't take an abstract concept such as being skilled at PvP in Guild Wars and reduce this to a materially existing number which can thus be used to compare various players to each other.

Its SAT, a passing grade in an arts class, number of albums sold, 4 star restaurants, the perfect 10 girl, etc.

You absolutely can, the fallacy is the end all be all attitude towards that numerical value. They are supposed to be taken as a starting point and not THE solution.

fiery · Dec 13, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

when will this thread every die.. guy who got kicked out.. suck it up get a new guild..if they ranked go gain and claw ya way back up and ask for an invite..if your better off go get another guild..

yes people are farming rank so what..the noob PUG groups..dont join.. if you want fame and rank make a group...make a build.. and do it..i mean if you want rank go work on it.. no need keep replying back and forth how so many groups are doing IWAY...and are people unexperienced just to get rank..

and yet you still get those people who are rank 3 and still doing it wrong..what can we do? nothing...they doing IWAY they see it works they do it..no way we can stop them..if we keep going on saying o the guild kicked me of not being rank. go gain some..

IWAY is fast fame when done right and can hold halls..but with my guilds new HOH build... im not complaning about 4 Flawless battles..and not running iway.

also to those people denying to use TS or VENT even for the simple IWAY.. or any build.. dont invite or accept there group..if they cant see VENT and TS is a big help for any help.. than you can see how they will do.

Quote:

Its SAT, a passing grade in an arts class, number of albums sold, 4 star restaurants, the perfect 10 girl, etc.

i think we past the point when this thread.. is overdone..and the ridiculous is coming out.

Sir Krohan · Dec 13, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I have the faction of r6's but yet Im rank 3.
You ask why? Cause I dont care about rank. I dont want to be ''l33t'' neither cool by typing /rank /fame every 1 minute. I used to tomb back then when there where no ''R3/6+ LFP NO NOOBZ PLZ FLASH RANK FIRST!!!!'' and I enjoyed every minute of it.

fiery · Dec 13, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

as i will say again when will this thread die...people we can see rank is ya problem.. no need keep saying.. i see groups doing LF rank + blah blah blah..and to those not really caring about rank ..well good for you.. and to those wanting rank.. go get ya guild to do HOH.. we dont need the same replys over and over than being ridiculed.

Medion · Dec 13, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Why not reset all fame and rank??

I mean, as those rank 6+ players are so good, they will get there back again right? Then the R0 people can join them and become rank 6 too.

Quote:

If you are being honest, you will take a rank6+ way sooner than a rank0
You will take a FoW armor warrior sooner than a 1.5 k armor warrior..
Because they keep farming or buying items on ebay?

Was this serious??? Do you really look at what armour someone wears if (s)he can join your group??
That's really stupid I think.

Shmash Witdaclub · Dec 13, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

quit reading it then - quite simple. when you stop reading it, it will be gone for your own sake of mind...

just was curious to see if many others were experiencing the same thing. you are really not giving barely anything to contribute to the thread. infact your last 3 posts have been the same...

sorry to ruin, or waste in your opinion, your precious time that you are spending reading the boards.

Shmash

crimsonfilms · Dec 13, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

as i will say again when will this thread die

Its your second post saying the same thing in 10 minutes?
Don't you think you should practice what you preach?

Navaros · Dec 13, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Why not reset all fame and rank

No way. You can't flush down all the countless hundreds of hours r6 and r9 have put in to get their rank down the toilet. The very idea is absurd. If you wanna throw away your own time then that's your business, but throwing away other people's time - no way.

Medion · Dec 13, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

No way. You can't flush down all the countless hundreds of hours r6 and r9 have put in to get their rank down the toilet. The very idea is absurd. If you wanna throw away your own time then that's your business, but throwing away other people's time - no way.

`

Wasn't it done with the guildladder too??
I didn't hear any complain about that.